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More difficult pattern?
4 ball Mills Mess vs, the five ball cascade?
This is a competition thread which ran from 7th Jan 2014 to 14th Jan 2014. View results.
Daniel Simu - - Наверх #
I would vote for the Mills Mess, but obviously I trained it way less than my cascade.
C*C*K (Christoph) - - Наверх #
Same Difficulty...,but why do they all ask always for the Mills Mess? In my opinion it´s the most overrated pattern in history of juggling.Everyone is doing it and it´s nothing special about it anymore.It looks cool if its juggled well, but in my opinion it don´t feels cool or flows much. I vote for the cascade as the much more natural and better feeling pattern.Good Luck with both pattern.Christoph
Little Paul - - Наверх #
I agree. The number of people who can juggle mills mess with more than 3 objects vastly outstrips the number of people I've seen who can make it flow or look "nice"
Mind you, the number of people who can make 3 ball mills excite me is quite small as well.
pumpkineater23 - - Наверх #
I think the way to make Mills flow is by concentrating on continuing the 'sideways 8' shape with a quick carry of the lower left and right corners. The carry really needs to be blended in (continuing the speed and shape) to create the effect that the balls are following each other. I think its a good idea to learn this with one ball before starting to learn the pattern. Mills Mess is beautiful (IMO) and perhaps the most 'flowy' of all juggling patterns. In my mind it seems old fashioned though, not old enough to be a classical style trick, but not modern either, like box juggling. It's an 80's trick, best juggled wearing small white shorts and head-sweatbands.
best juggled wearing small white shorts and head-sweatbands.
If that doesn't excite LP nothing will.
Votes: 3
Little Paul - - Наверх #
I do love sweatbands it's true
noslowerdna - - Наверх #
Interesting contrast between Mills Mess and box patterns... In my latest research [1] I've tried to blur the line between the two styles, typically starting with a mess base and making it more boxy, rather than starting with a box base and making it more messy. I suppose with some intentions of modernizing Mills Mess, since even the "advanced" mess patterns seem pretty stale at this point.
On a side note, I would suggest a major factor behind the popularity of Mills Mess is that its perfect blend of simplicity and complexity makes it a fantastic base pattern from which countless variations can be derived. The box is popular for the same reason, I think.
[1] https://youtu.be/cUfOLJbIMQ4
pumpkineater23 - - Наверх #
I'm *really* loving your 3b exploration Andrew, I've watched your latest video several times. Such interesting and original patterns.. please keep them coming!!
noslowerdna - - Наверх #
Thanks for the nice compliment.
I agree with this. Why always mill's mess? It's very rare to see someone doing Boston mess, reverse mill's mess, crossed arm cascade or other arm movement type tricks with 4+ objects.
HardAttack27 - - Наверх #
What I read online and most YouTube tutorials say 4 ball Mills Mess is more difficult than the five ball cascade, I diss agree and wanted to try out the "set this thread as a competition"feature on here and this is what I came up with,
HardAttack27 - - Наверх #
Without a doubt cross arm fountains r harder
4b Boston is hard to learn because you basically need to unlearn your 4b mills and approach it from a different angle. I'd say it's probs 2-3x more difficult than the mills.
Cedric Lackpot - - Наверх #
I prefer 4 ball Boston Mess
Isn't that just pistons? If so, it's much easier than 3b Boston mess. Weird but true.
Nah not pistons, it's the same hand movement as a 4b mills mess but none of the balls interlace; so it looks like pistons but with hands crossing underneath. Definitely took me a long time to get it right!
Little Paul - - Наверх #
I seem to remember there's more than one permutation you can do the "vanilla" 3 ball boston mess in (depending on which column you start with and which way your hands are crossed when you do so)
I can't be bothered to think it through carefully, but is the same true of the 4 ball version?
I think the 3 ball pattern has 2 versions: left, middle, right & right, middle, left.
As I understand it there is only 1 permutation of the 4b Boston Mess (though I could be wrong here!) I'll record a vid tonight and see if I can figure out if there are more; it's one trick I don't think I've ever filmed for some reason.
Thanks to you CamS, I just started having a go at this trick. It feels very much like a mill's mess and if I make a crossing throw accidentally, it really wants to collapse into mill's mess.
I'm doing the version of this which is included on Jongl, which I assume is the correct one? Each hand throws and catches the same two balls always, while making a mill's type arm movement. I did a rubbish diagram of what I mean:
Ball: 1 2 3 4
Hand: R L R L
: ^ ^ ^ ^
So the balls stay in those positions and that is where the hands are. Would be cool to see a video of you doing it. Real-life videos are way better than Jongl.
oh of course I forgot the post formatting would be ruined. Here is a better (though still rubbish) diagram.
Ball: 1 2 3 4
Hand: R L R L
^ ^ ^ ^
Yeah that's the version I do (I think) didn't have a chance to record last night as I ended up going to see Anchorman 2 and drinking too many cheap cocktails, I'll do it tonight for you :)
HardAttack27 - - Наверх #
I like the cross arm reverse cascade as well, I switch from lefty to righty by doing half of Mills Mess , it pretty try doing Mills Mess with 3 cross arm reverse cascade throws inI between every rotation,
HardAttack27 - - Наверх #
When I do Mills Mess it flows with any type of music I put on! From extreme death metal to country bluegrass that pattern flows perfectly with the beat!i know eaxactly how to make it flow all 3 balls perfect figure 8! Fast with low throws looks so good, when u 1st become a serious juggler and u watch a vid of 5 ball Mills Mess!thats it dude ur hooked like a f,,,,, dope addict !!!!!!
HardAttack27 - - Наверх #
I'm voting for the cascade
A quick survey: I would appreciate if you guys would put these siteswaps in order of difficulty, highest difficulty first. Please only put down the siteswaps you can actually do. i.e. Do not guess the difficulty. If two tricks are equally difficult, put them on the same line like this siteswapa = siteswapb. The list is a mixture of 4 and 5 ball siteswaps. Your list should be sorted in order of difficulty only (ignoring number of objects). Thanks for you time. : )
The list:
4
53
534
633
7333
5551
71
552
642
9151 (hi-lo shower).
80
7531
5
744
8444
94444
645
8844
97531
a0
91
b171 (hi-lo)
88441
753
663
7733
66661
My example list:
(most difficult)
a0
80
88441
7733 = b171
8844
91
94444
8444
663
66661
744
9151
7531
7333
645
5
71
633
5551 = 534
4
(least difficult)
lol used the bold tags I'm used to from other forums... In case anyone is wondering, this is for a little program I'm trying to write.
Here's my list
a0
80
88441
8844
b171
97531
7733
94444
91
8444
663
7531
9151
753
744
66661
645
7333
71
5551
5
633
642
534
552
53
4
Here's the list according the Ben Beever's difficulty formula from his book
a0
b171
91
80
8844
97531
88441
9151
7733
94444
66661
71
8444
753
663
744
645
7531
5
7333
5551
642
633
552
53
534
4
Mike Moore - - Наверх #
Are we saying "do at all" or "do well"? For example, I think 53 is easier to do in an ugly (syncopated) way, but 534 is easier to do with even beats and for very long runs.
C*C*K (Christoph) - - Наверх #
Here is my list :
- a0
- 80
- 8844
- 97531
- b171
- 88441
- 7733
- 94444
- 91
- 753
- 663
- 8444
- 744
- 645
- 66661
- 9151
- 7531
- 7333
- 5
- 633
- 552
- 71
- 642
- 5551
- 534
- 53
- 4
C*C*K
I saw this post and thought "Seriously!? That's asking a lot of the edge's readers....
But I have nothing else to do so let's go:
a0
80
b171
8844
88441
7733
97531
94444
91
663
8444
753
66661
744
9151
5
645
71
7333
633
7531
534
5551
642
552
53
4
In order of ability to get long runs.
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